1 00:00:23,810 --> 00:00:20,220 welcome to shattered reality with their 2 00:00:26,790 --> 00:00:23,820 hosts kate valentine and Farrugia 3 00:00:31,829 --> 00:00:26,800 prepare to have your paradigms shifted 4 00:00:37,260 --> 00:00:31,839 into truths questioned and now shattered 5 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:37,270 reality hey there Kate how are you today 6 00:00:44,220 --> 00:00:39,690 I'm pretty good very good actually 7 00:00:45,990 --> 00:00:44,230 purusha and I know for our listeners 8 00:00:48,810 --> 00:00:46,000 they just should know it's been a really 9 00:00:51,709 --> 00:00:48,820 sort of an unusual weather afternoon oh 10 00:00:55,970 --> 00:00:51,719 yes here in the new york new jersey area 11 00:00:59,790 --> 00:00:55,980 we are having a lot of rain 12 00:01:01,919 --> 00:00:59,800 intermittently wins it's really kind of 13 00:01:05,130 --> 00:01:01,929 screwing up traffic which affects all of 14 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:05,140 us coming here to do shattered reality 15 00:01:10,410 --> 00:01:06,970 yeah how are how is the weather by you 16 00:01:13,050 --> 00:01:10,420 Alex you know I don't want to brag but 17 00:01:15,420 --> 00:01:13,060 we're in San Diego it's always beautiful 18 00:01:17,190 --> 00:01:15,430 and it's beautiful today it's especially 19 00:01:20,460 --> 00:01:17,200 beautiful today but I grew up in Chicago 20 00:01:23,069 --> 00:01:20,470 so I ok ok through my share of bad 21 00:01:29,630 --> 00:01:23,079 weather so I deserve this well this is 22 00:01:34,980 --> 00:01:29,640 our podcast number 14 we started out in 23 00:01:38,819 --> 00:01:34,990 November of 2014 and and now this is the 24 00:01:41,370 --> 00:01:38,829 14th show that we've done and we are 25 00:01:46,590 --> 00:01:41,380 really really really pleased to welcome 26 00:01:53,399 --> 00:01:46,600 a veteran of podcasting mr. Alex Icarus 27 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:53,409 and his wonderful podcast is skeptic oh 28 00:02:03,179 --> 00:01:56,770 and i highly recommend it highly highly 29 00:02:08,370 --> 00:02:03,189 recommended he has done 279 podcasts 30 00:02:13,949 --> 00:02:08,380 since 2007 and i have to tell him he has 31 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:13,959 done a lot of heavy lifting for us yes 32 00:02:18,370 --> 00:02:17,170 indeed because he has done something 33 00:02:20,860 --> 00:02:18,380 that I don't 34 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:20,870 that I can do myself maybe I'd surprise 35 00:02:27,090 --> 00:02:24,170 myself one day but fighting that the 36 00:02:32,620 --> 00:02:27,100 bunkers fighting the debunkers on a 37 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:32,630 number of areas he has really come to 38 00:02:42,670 --> 00:02:36,290 the aid of many people in consciousness 39 00:02:45,460 --> 00:02:42,680 research specifically but beyond that he 40 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:45,470 has defended a lot of people even 41 00:02:52,030 --> 00:02:48,530 against the being blackballed by the TED 42 00:02:53,620 --> 00:02:52,040 talks and I want to mention here Alex I 43 00:02:56,650 --> 00:02:53,630 should let you get a word in edgewise 44 00:02:59,620 --> 00:02:56,660 but just in regards to that please 45 00:03:01,840 --> 00:02:59,630 include Russell Targ my dear friend 46 00:03:04,210 --> 00:03:01,850 Russell Targ that one of the founders of 47 00:03:08,170 --> 00:03:04,220 remote viewing who has also been 48 00:03:09,910 --> 00:03:08,180 blackballed by ted talks you know I've 49 00:03:11,470 --> 00:03:09,920 just made a little note to do that 50 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:11,480 Farrugia thank you very much for that 51 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:14,330 nice introduction and we should be clear 52 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:17,210 you know I'm not defending anyone or I 53 00:03:21,940 --> 00:03:19,730 mean I'm just following my nose and 54 00:03:24,070 --> 00:03:21,950 doing what's obvious and I think what 55 00:03:26,860 --> 00:03:24,080 you're alluding to is quite true if 56 00:03:28,540 --> 00:03:26,870 someone's just fair-minded and looks at 57 00:03:30,580 --> 00:03:28,550 these cases that were bringing delight 58 00:03:31,990 --> 00:03:30,590 it's not a matter of taking one side or 59 00:03:35,110 --> 00:03:32,000 another it's just taking the sight of 60 00:03:39,250 --> 00:03:35,120 honesty and truth so Russell Targ is a 61 00:03:40,900 --> 00:03:39,260 fabulous researcher brilliant mind I've 62 00:03:43,810 --> 00:03:40,910 interviewed interview him a long time 63 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:43,820 ago on skeptic oh and his words have 64 00:03:47,740 --> 00:03:45,770 stuck with me for a lot for a long time 65 00:03:49,330 --> 00:03:47,750 he's written some excellent books and 66 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:49,340 has been way out ahead of the curve a 67 00:03:52,990 --> 00:03:50,690 lot of times on a lot of these issues so 68 00:03:56,710 --> 00:03:53,000 thanks for bringing that up and yet 69 00:03:59,800 --> 00:03:56,720 another another black mark against our 70 00:04:02,490 --> 00:03:59,810 friends at Ted and their ideas worth 71 00:04:05,410 --> 00:04:02,500 sharing and protecting and censoring 72 00:04:07,540 --> 00:04:05,420 yeah the censoring is a little bit much 73 00:04:09,940 --> 00:04:07,550 if you can't show any edge science 74 00:04:14,470 --> 00:04:09,950 what's the point of repeating the same 75 00:04:17,140 --> 00:04:14,480 old stuff and and speaking of russell i 76 00:04:20,979 --> 00:04:17,150 am going to be seeing him this weekend 77 00:04:22,630 --> 00:04:20,989 in New Orleans I hope when I am at the 78 00:04:26,469 --> 00:04:22,640 International of remote viewers 79 00:04:29,050 --> 00:04:26,479 Association convention come symposium 80 00:04:32,239 --> 00:04:29,060 whatever and he is there going to be 81 00:04:33,739 --> 00:04:32,249 presenting his movie which the title 82 00:04:36,439 --> 00:04:33,749 love which remains unknown to me 83 00:04:39,799 --> 00:04:36,449 presently but he's presenting the movie 84 00:04:43,429 --> 00:04:39,809 which is his rebuttal to the TED Talks 85 00:04:44,599 --> 00:04:43,439 debacle great well thanks for bringing 86 00:04:46,399 --> 00:04:44,609 that to my attention I just made another 87 00:04:48,649 --> 00:04:46,409 note i'm going to check that it may be a 88 00:04:52,999 --> 00:04:48,659 big good time for me to follow up with 89 00:04:55,609 --> 00:04:53,009 dr Targ and and get him on get him on 90 00:04:57,379 --> 00:04:55,619 get him on skeptic oh yeah you know what 91 00:05:00,259 --> 00:04:57,389 now that I mention it you know i have 92 00:05:01,969 --> 00:05:00,269 not had him on skeptical so i have to 93 00:05:04,309 --> 00:05:01,979 double check myself you know i was 94 00:05:06,350 --> 00:05:04,319 thinking of charles tart charles is a 95 00:05:08,449 --> 00:05:06,360 wonderful fellow too wonderful guy too 96 00:05:10,489 --> 00:05:08,459 but I just got the two confused in my 97 00:05:13,519 --> 00:05:10,499 mind but of course Russell Targ from 98 00:05:16,100 --> 00:05:13,529 Stanford Research Institute who has just 99 00:05:19,009 --> 00:05:16,110 just did amazing work with the Stargate 100 00:05:20,689 --> 00:05:19,019 project and you know their history is 101 00:05:22,579 --> 00:05:20,699 really interesting right I don't know if 102 00:05:24,769 --> 00:05:22,589 you've covered him on the show but there 103 00:05:26,899 --> 00:05:24,779 were a couple of guys who are just you 104 00:05:28,669 --> 00:05:26,909 know Targ has this amazing scientific 105 00:05:32,119 --> 00:05:28,679 background before he ever gets involved 106 00:05:34,789 --> 00:05:32,129 in this crazy remote viewing suddenly 107 00:05:35,959 --> 00:05:34,799 absolutely world-renowned in his field i 108 00:05:39,949 --> 00:05:35,969 forget what his field you remember what 109 00:05:42,739 --> 00:05:39,959 is I know all about his background he 110 00:05:44,689 --> 00:05:42,749 comes from the same area of the village 111 00:05:47,359 --> 00:05:44,699 where I have lived for a number of years 112 00:05:51,199 --> 00:05:47,369 in the East sort of central east village 113 00:05:53,419 --> 00:05:51,209 and his background one of the things 114 00:05:56,409 --> 00:05:53,429 that he did before he got involved with 115 00:06:00,699 --> 00:05:56,419 remote viewing is he got involved with 116 00:06:06,259 --> 00:06:00,709 airplanes and he had a way to improve 117 00:06:08,539 --> 00:06:06,269 the the sensing systems on on airplanes 118 00:06:11,929 --> 00:06:08,549 that would have prevented many crashes 119 00:06:14,629 --> 00:06:11,939 from happening but the airlines don't 120 00:06:18,319 --> 00:06:14,639 want to spend the money on instituting 121 00:06:20,059 --> 00:06:18,329 his very reasonable system of preventing 122 00:06:22,129 --> 00:06:20,069 certain crashes and that's something to 123 00:06:27,049 --> 00:06:22,139 look up and you know he really needs to 124 00:06:29,719 --> 00:06:27,059 be lauded in his efforts absolutely yeah 125 00:06:32,869 --> 00:06:29,729 like real but in guy that research was 126 00:06:36,079 --> 00:06:32,879 amazing wasn't it I mean I did do a 127 00:06:37,759 --> 00:06:36,089 couple of shows about that stanford 128 00:06:39,889 --> 00:06:37,769 research institute that they bet did 129 00:06:43,009 --> 00:06:39,899 back in the sixties remember with Uri 130 00:06:44,220 --> 00:06:43,019 Geller and then they also did with Joe 131 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:44,230 mechanical 132 00:06:50,280 --> 00:06:47,770 yo mcmonagle is a is also a kind of a 133 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:50,290 friend of mine he's with the monroe 134 00:06:54,150 --> 00:06:51,970 institute where i'm a member of the 135 00:06:56,340 --> 00:06:54,160 Professional Division and we've had a 136 00:06:58,530 --> 00:06:56,350 lot of interesting conversations Joe 137 00:07:01,010 --> 00:06:58,540 mcmonagle and I and his wife scooter who 138 00:07:03,420 --> 00:07:01,020 is a wonderful astrologer as well as the 139 00:07:05,790 --> 00:07:03,430 director of the monroe institute and 140 00:07:07,890 --> 00:07:05,800 you've had joe on which kudos to you for 141 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:07,900 that well you know what i thought was 142 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:10,930 just amazing about Joe's story just to 143 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:13,210 recap for anyone who hasn't heard it you 144 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:17,050 know so Joe mechanical psychic spy 145 00:07:22,620 --> 00:07:21,250 number one and his he I don't know you 146 00:07:25,740 --> 00:07:22,630 probably know this from talking to him 147 00:07:28,020 --> 00:07:25,750 but he actually got into this by having 148 00:07:30,810 --> 00:07:28,030 a near-death experience absolutely I 149 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:30,820 mean he was a spy if I can retell the 150 00:07:35,550 --> 00:07:33,090 story without messing it up off a memory 151 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:35,560 he's working on the East Germany West 152 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:38,650 Germany border and he's a spy a real spy 153 00:07:43,170 --> 00:07:40,570 like is he in the movies and he's at 154 00:07:45,270 --> 00:07:43,180 this restaurant in all of a sudden right 155 00:07:47,850 --> 00:07:45,280 on the border and all of a sudden he 156 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:47,860 starts choking really bad he doesn't 157 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:49,690 know what's going on he stumbles to his 158 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:52,770 feet stumbles outside the door and dies 159 00:07:58,590 --> 00:07:56,290 yes and they pick him up they call 160 00:08:00,330 --> 00:07:58,600 military security that get him there 161 00:08:02,340 --> 00:08:00,340 they're racing him to a hospital and 162 00:08:04,350 --> 00:08:02,350 meanwhile he's having a full-blown 163 00:08:05,970 --> 00:08:04,360 near-death experience he's outside of 164 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:05,980 his body he's looking down at the 165 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:08,650 ambulance classic near-death experience 166 00:08:13,410 --> 00:08:10,930 they're resuscitating than all this so 167 00:08:16,230 --> 00:08:13,420 as an aside one thing he later finds out 168 00:08:19,470 --> 00:08:16,240 or at least strongly suspects is that he 169 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:19,480 was poisoned by the East Germans this is 170 00:08:23,610 --> 00:08:21,490 an attempt to get him but it's really 171 00:08:24,650 --> 00:08:23,620 this intriguing story but he goes 172 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:24,660 through and he has this amazing 173 00:08:30,810 --> 00:08:27,970 near-death experience he recovers and is 174 00:08:32,310 --> 00:08:30,820 immediately surrounded by military 175 00:08:35,159 --> 00:08:32,320 intelligence officers who want to 176 00:08:37,380 --> 00:08:35,169 debrief him and he says hey Manny know 177 00:08:39,900 --> 00:08:37,390 this I was outside of my body what's 178 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:39,910 going on data so they interrogate him 179 00:08:43,770 --> 00:08:42,010 like endlessly they don't know what's 180 00:08:45,510 --> 00:08:43,780 going on but you know they have an 181 00:08:47,130 --> 00:08:45,520 interest now they don't know what's 182 00:08:49,380 --> 00:08:47,140 going on this is all it becomes an 183 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:49,390 intelligence matter but what I found 184 00:08:55,140 --> 00:08:52,330 fascinating Persian and is the part of 185 00:08:57,990 --> 00:08:55,150 the story when later in his career much 186 00:09:00,510 --> 00:08:58,000 later in his career he shall 187 00:09:01,860 --> 00:09:00,520 up in front of Russell Targ at Stanford 188 00:09:05,010 --> 00:09:01,870 Research Institute and they're going to 189 00:09:08,070 --> 00:09:05,020 do this remote viewing spying program 190 00:09:10,860 --> 00:09:08,080 and he's been selected to do it and his 191 00:09:15,020 --> 00:09:10,870 file is sealed with this like red top 192 00:09:19,290 --> 00:09:15,030 secret tape and when Targ cracks it open 193 00:09:22,500 --> 00:09:19,300 inside is a copy of Raymond bood Raymond 194 00:09:25,530 --> 00:09:22,510 Moody's famous book on near-death 195 00:09:28,980 --> 00:09:25,540 experience so it just it goes to show 196 00:09:31,830 --> 00:09:28,990 you two things one is that this extended 197 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:31,840 consciousness both near-death experience 198 00:09:36,510 --> 00:09:34,810 and remote viewing is connected a number 199 00:09:38,340 --> 00:09:36,520 to the government is known it all along 200 00:09:40,860 --> 00:09:38,350 they've understood the connection 201 00:09:42,540 --> 00:09:40,870 they've seen it it really makes you 202 00:09:45,750 --> 00:09:42,550 wonder back circling back to your 203 00:09:48,060 --> 00:09:45,760 original point you know how much they 204 00:09:51,210 --> 00:09:48,070 are really trying to rig the game and 205 00:09:55,350 --> 00:09:51,220 influence things when you see this you 206 00:09:57,210 --> 00:09:55,360 know public science stat a position 207 00:09:58,850 --> 00:09:57,220 statement that's being taken all that's 208 00:10:01,260 --> 00:09:58,860 ridiculous that can't ever happen 209 00:10:03,060 --> 00:10:01,270 baloney they know it they've always 210 00:10:05,870 --> 00:10:03,070 known about they've known about it for a 211 00:10:08,610 --> 00:10:05,880 lot longer than these so-called 212 00:10:10,770 --> 00:10:08,620 cutting-edge consciousness researchers 213 00:10:12,510 --> 00:10:10,780 have they're on top of it and it's 214 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:12,520 happened yes well I have a couple of 215 00:10:19,170 --> 00:10:15,490 things to say to that I'm I ninety-five 216 00:10:23,010 --> 00:10:19,180 percent agree with you um what I would 217 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:23,020 say to that is number one yes many of 218 00:10:28,350 --> 00:10:25,930 those people know about it and my first 219 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:28,360 remote viewing teacher mr. David 220 00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:29,770 Morehouse I haven't seen him in a long 221 00:10:34,680 --> 00:10:31,690 time but he was the first person i 222 00:10:37,860 --> 00:10:34,690 studied remote viewing with he was also 223 00:10:40,470 --> 00:10:37,870 a sort of battle casualty in the near 224 00:10:43,020 --> 00:10:40,480 east where he had a you know an injury 225 00:10:44,450 --> 00:10:43,030 he had some kind of a blast and also my 226 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:44,460 memory has to serve me correctly 227 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:47,010 somewhat sort of a blast during 228 00:10:54,030 --> 00:10:50,490 maneuvers in the Arabian Peninsula 229 00:10:56,700 --> 00:10:54,040 somewhere and he saw you know these 230 00:10:58,770 --> 00:10:56,710 beings or this particular being which 231 00:11:01,230 --> 00:10:58,780 was like Mar Duke or something of that 232 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:01,240 nature i I'm giving it the name he 233 00:11:08,220 --> 00:11:05,050 didn't and he also became a member a 234 00:11:11,759 --> 00:11:08,230 later in the game than Joe mcmonagle who 235 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:11,769 was double 0 1 and the remote viewers 236 00:11:18,479 --> 00:11:14,410 a pile there and they were recruiting 237 00:11:20,639 --> 00:11:18,489 guys you know skip Atwater and the other 238 00:11:23,460 --> 00:11:20,649 recruiters they were recruiting people 239 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:23,470 from having had these instances and 240 00:11:29,729 --> 00:11:26,290 sending them off to be trained in remote 241 00:11:31,799 --> 00:11:29,739 viewing that being said so we had a we 242 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:31,809 had wonderful guests our last time which 243 00:11:41,970 --> 00:11:37,569 was a young woman which is a dr john be 244 00:11:44,039 --> 00:11:41,980 Alexander former colonel and he makes 245 00:11:46,259 --> 00:11:44,049 this point which everybody has to keep 246 00:11:50,239 --> 00:11:46,269 in mind and we all slip on this point 247 00:11:52,829 --> 00:11:50,249 the government is not a monolithic 248 00:11:55,769 --> 00:11:52,839 society you've got people with in 249 00:11:57,329 --> 00:11:55,779 different departments different agencies 250 00:12:02,280 --> 00:11:57,339 they believe all sorts of different 251 00:12:05,549 --> 00:12:02,290 things but John Alexander studied what 252 00:12:08,460 --> 00:12:05,559 he thought he had a what was the name of 253 00:12:11,729 --> 00:12:08,470 his Kate I'm sorry I'm drawing a blank 254 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:11,739 ok he had a while examiner yes yes he 255 00:12:19,769 --> 00:12:14,970 had a group called the Applied Physics 256 00:12:21,629 --> 00:12:19,779 theoretical theoretical physics in order 257 00:12:23,579 --> 00:12:21,639 to keep it under the radar and they 258 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:23,589 studied UFOs in what the government 259 00:12:29,999 --> 00:12:26,290 knows about UFOs but that was just UFOs 260 00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:30,009 as one part of the picture one thread 261 00:12:34,319 --> 00:12:31,839 but it was a prime example of how 262 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:34,329 government can be manipulated right and 263 00:12:39,090 --> 00:12:36,490 if you intercede the beginning of his 264 00:12:42,509 --> 00:12:39,100 book it's kind of like the beginning of 265 00:12:45,389 --> 00:12:42,519 his book tells us that and I believe him 266 00:12:47,460 --> 00:12:45,399 on this point certainly that you know 267 00:12:50,669 --> 00:12:47,470 the government is not a monolithic thing 268 00:12:52,739 --> 00:12:50,679 and some people in government know some 269 00:12:55,169 --> 00:12:52,749 stuff other people believe the exact 270 00:12:57,179 --> 00:12:55,179 opposite all government employees some 271 00:12:59,879 --> 00:12:57,189 of them very high up you know what I 272 00:13:01,799 --> 00:12:59,889 mean Alex yeah but oh boy I mean don't 273 00:13:04,049 --> 00:13:01,809 get me started on Colonel Alexander who 274 00:13:05,460 --> 00:13:04,059 seems like a very nice guy in a smart 275 00:13:09,019 --> 00:13:05,470 guy I don't want to put him down in any 276 00:13:11,759 --> 00:13:09,029 way very high it seems like his logic is 277 00:13:14,009 --> 00:13:11,769 completely backwards I mean what the net 278 00:13:15,869 --> 00:13:14,019 of what I hear i'm saying is that ok 279 00:13:18,059 --> 00:13:15,879 it's not a monolith different people no 280 00:13:19,590 --> 00:13:18,069 different things but since i don't know 281 00:13:21,059 --> 00:13:19,600 any of this stuff then it couldn't have 282 00:13:23,939 --> 00:13:21,069 happened because i would have crossed my 283 00:13:25,410 --> 00:13:23,949 desk yeah total yeah so many 284 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:25,420 things that he claims did 285 00:13:31,260 --> 00:13:28,050 happen we have so much so many 286 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:31,270 contradictory eyewitnesses for that it's 287 00:13:34,130 --> 00:13:33,130 it's really kind of ridiculous and the 288 00:13:36,210 --> 00:13:34,140 other thing I mean his whole 289 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:36,220 compartmentalization thing is which has 290 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:38,170 been well established in the military 291 00:13:43,590 --> 00:13:41,050 intelligence field really works against 292 00:13:46,050 --> 00:13:43,600 him no Colonel Alexander you wouldn't 293 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:46,060 know if they didn't want you to know and 294 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:48,210 the fact that again that is to say that 295 00:13:51,930 --> 00:13:50,290 different people no different things 296 00:13:54,930 --> 00:13:51,940 well that suggests some kind of 297 00:13:57,030 --> 00:13:54,940 hierarchy that there is an order to that 298 00:13:59,790 --> 00:13:57,040 hierarchy and up above that hierarchy 299 00:14:01,530 --> 00:13:59,800 there's some people but no I don't want 300 00:14:03,510 --> 00:14:01,540 to say everything but maybe almost 301 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:03,520 everything that would be interesting to 302 00:14:07,830 --> 00:14:06,010 talk to those folks you know I don't 303 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:07,840 think they would talk to us no they 304 00:14:12,150 --> 00:14:09,610 wouldn't talk that I mean it's they 305 00:14:14,580 --> 00:14:12,160 wouldn't only a little bit above doing 306 00:14:17,910 --> 00:14:14,590 something like that and worse yet you 307 00:14:19,770 --> 00:14:17,920 will never know who they is well it's 308 00:14:22,350 --> 00:14:19,780 not only that they wouldn't talk to us 309 00:14:25,380 --> 00:14:22,360 they don't have they would talk to us 310 00:14:27,930 --> 00:14:25,390 and they would deliberately miss inform 311 00:14:31,290 --> 00:14:27,940 us disinformation deliberately 312 00:14:33,180 --> 00:14:31,300 disinformation obfuscation I mean this 313 00:14:36,180 --> 00:14:33,190 is the history anyone who doesn't 314 00:14:38,130 --> 00:14:36,190 believe in conspiracy theories I I've 315 00:14:41,010 --> 00:14:38,140 gone over the so many times it's like I 316 00:14:42,660 --> 00:14:41,020 always tell my own just personal life 317 00:14:45,810 --> 00:14:42,670 story of you know when I first took a 318 00:14:48,540 --> 00:14:45,820 job out of college I worked for a really 319 00:14:50,580 --> 00:14:48,550 well-respected accounting firm and I was 320 00:14:52,650 --> 00:14:50,590 just a little minion I was down at the 321 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:52,660 bottom doing information systems 322 00:14:57,090 --> 00:14:54,490 consulting I was a computer programmer 323 00:14:59,880 --> 00:14:57,100 take but there were no conspiracies I 324 00:15:01,530 --> 00:14:59,890 was told to go to Ralston Purina and to 325 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:01,540 be a part of this information systems 326 00:15:06,030 --> 00:15:03,370 audit I was told to go to anheuser-busch 327 00:15:08,730 --> 00:15:06,040 and you know that life was very simple 328 00:15:12,180 --> 00:15:08,740 it seemed very simple to me as I 329 00:15:14,220 --> 00:15:12,190 advanced in my career and then as I had 330 00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:14,230 my own company and as I was in the 331 00:15:18,510 --> 00:15:16,480 process of putting together larger deals 332 00:15:21,390 --> 00:15:18,520 or selling my company to a publicly 333 00:15:24,330 --> 00:15:21,400 traded company my god everything was a 334 00:15:25,380 --> 00:15:24,340 conspiracy right everything was don't 335 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:25,390 let that guy know in this this 336 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:26,890 information get together with our 337 00:15:31,410 --> 00:15:28,690 lawyers what are their know everything 338 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:31,420 is a conspiracy at that level so it's 339 00:15:36,030 --> 00:15:34,210 just people who deny conspiracy theories 340 00:15:38,430 --> 00:15:36,040 are just naive about how the world works 341 00:15:39,390 --> 00:15:38,440 yes if you work pulling up milkshakes at 342 00:15:40,830 --> 00:15:39,400 McDonald's 343 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:40,840 oh there aren't a lot of conspiracies 344 00:15:45,090 --> 00:15:42,970 but when there are a lot of money and 345 00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:45,100 power and thawed everything is a 346 00:15:49,710 --> 00:15:46,990 conspiracy I mean even now there duh 347 00:15:51,090 --> 00:15:49,720 they're conspiring to get fifteen 348 00:15:53,490 --> 00:15:51,100 dollars an hour that's a total 349 00:15:55,710 --> 00:15:53,500 conspiracy it's I mean you can go from 350 00:15:58,080 --> 00:15:55,720 the Latin con spero with hope I mean 351 00:15:59,700 --> 00:15:58,090 three people with wealth and power get 352 00:16:02,160 --> 00:15:59,710 together to keep wealth and power what's 353 00:16:04,890 --> 00:16:02,170 the big deal the thing the thing is 354 00:16:07,590 --> 00:16:04,900 though what stops him is something like 355 00:16:10,770 --> 00:16:07,600 yourself certainly skeptics have a long 356 00:16:12,810 --> 00:16:10,780 history in human history and how did you 357 00:16:15,210 --> 00:16:12,820 come into from accounting to become a 358 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:15,220 skeptical well I wasn't really an 359 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:16,810 accountant i was in information systems 360 00:16:23,660 --> 00:16:20,770 guy okay and uh and then i was fortunate 361 00:16:26,580 --> 00:16:23,670 up a start my own company and through 362 00:16:29,340 --> 00:16:26,590 extreme luck and grace i was able to 363 00:16:31,020 --> 00:16:29,350 sell that company and then have some 364 00:16:32,910 --> 00:16:31,030 time to pursue the things that I really 365 00:16:36,330 --> 00:16:32,920 wanted to pursue and for me it was 366 00:16:39,930 --> 00:16:36,340 always again it it just seemed obvious 367 00:16:43,050 --> 00:16:39,940 to me that the big picture questions 368 00:16:46,170 --> 00:16:43,060 were what I should focus on who are we 369 00:16:48,630 --> 00:16:46,180 why are we here who's telling the truth 370 00:16:50,820 --> 00:16:48,640 so that was just my approach I didn't 371 00:16:52,830 --> 00:16:50,830 have any fixed agenda in terms of what 372 00:16:54,570 --> 00:16:52,840 the answer was I was just kind of 373 00:16:57,060 --> 00:16:54,580 frustrated that everyone seemed to be 374 00:16:58,530 --> 00:16:57,070 kind of not very concerned with the 375 00:17:01,440 --> 00:16:58,540 questions I thought were the most 376 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:01,450 central important questions you know and 377 00:17:05,310 --> 00:17:03,850 I realized that religion had really 378 00:17:07,380 --> 00:17:05,320 failed in terms of answering those 379 00:17:08,670 --> 00:17:07,390 questions so i was looking to science 380 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:08,680 but then i was immediately drawn to 381 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:11,290 people in the scientific community who 382 00:17:14,220 --> 00:17:12,850 were kind of outsiders who were saying 383 00:17:16,020 --> 00:17:14,230 well you know science really isn't 384 00:17:19,170 --> 00:17:16,030 telling the truth either they're kind of 385 00:17:21,510 --> 00:17:19,180 doing this bait and switch thing with 386 00:17:23,610 --> 00:17:21,520 the truth as well so that's what really 387 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:23,620 sent me off i'm just trying to get these 388 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:25,810 answers to these questions and skeptic 389 00:17:32,100 --> 00:17:28,330 oh and the show was just my front my 390 00:17:34,050 --> 00:17:32,110 cover or a way to ask the intelligent 391 00:17:35,460 --> 00:17:34,060 people that I really wanted to ask you 392 00:17:36,780 --> 00:17:35,470 know these questions because you can't 393 00:17:39,300 --> 00:17:36,790 just call him up out of the blue and say 394 00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:39,310 hey tell me the truth you want to I was 395 00:17:42,690 --> 00:17:40,510 going to say that that's sort of our 396 00:17:45,420 --> 00:17:42,700 reason for doing yes yes well awesome 397 00:17:47,100 --> 00:17:45,430 our reason for my reason for doing it is 398 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:47,110 that I'll go into in a minute but I want 399 00:17:53,100 --> 00:17:52,090 to tack back a second to the the jumpy 400 00:17:56,220 --> 00:17:53,110 Alexander 401 00:17:58,320 --> 00:17:56,230 question and what I found to be you know 402 00:18:00,000 --> 00:17:58,330 there are a lot of people who don't 403 00:18:02,039 --> 00:18:00,010 believe everything he says I don't 404 00:18:05,850 --> 00:18:02,049 believe everything anybody says you know 405 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:05,860 even my mom up but but the point here is 406 00:18:13,140 --> 00:18:08,650 that after they got past those questions 407 00:18:15,630 --> 00:18:13,150 that you brought up um what's-his-name 408 00:18:18,210 --> 00:18:15,640 that the other guy who had the rich one 409 00:18:20,669 --> 00:18:18,220 oh boy just as just might my mind fails 410 00:18:24,330 --> 00:18:20,679 me it's not a Kodak moment no it's not a 411 00:18:26,250 --> 00:18:24,340 coup senior member rich stolen rich 412 00:18:29,070 --> 00:18:26,260 Dolan who wrote you those wonderful 413 00:18:32,310 --> 00:18:29,080 books about UFOs and the national 414 00:18:34,350 --> 00:18:32,320 security state and a few other books and 415 00:18:37,409 --> 00:18:34,360 he's a really good guy and I want to you 416 00:18:40,289 --> 00:18:37,419 know say hi rich but beyond that rich 417 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:40,299 Dolan and Colonel John be Alexander pH 418 00:18:49,380 --> 00:18:45,490 they had a debate and our friend chase 419 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:49,390 koletzki was who was a MUFON executive 420 00:18:55,169 --> 00:18:51,490 at the time she's since resigned i 421 00:18:58,140 --> 00:18:55,179 believe they had a debate and chase 422 00:18:59,970 --> 00:18:58,150 koletzki was the moderator now after 423 00:19:03,240 --> 00:18:59,980 they got over those few questions that 424 00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:03,250 you very rightly brought up Alex they 425 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:05,200 agreed on almost everything even though 426 00:19:09,780 --> 00:19:07,570 they were supposed to be at opposing 427 00:19:12,330 --> 00:19:09,790 ends of the scale in other words they 428 00:19:14,820 --> 00:19:12,340 both agreed on the reality of UFOs they 429 00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:14,830 both agreed that they're out there now 430 00:19:18,900 --> 00:19:17,110 that people see things that some of them 431 00:19:24,090 --> 00:19:18,910 seem to be nuts and bolts and some of 432 00:19:25,950 --> 00:19:24,100 them seem to be not so much and so the 433 00:19:27,419 --> 00:19:25,960 fact that he might not be telling the 434 00:19:29,730 --> 00:19:27,429 truth the whole truth and nothing but 435 00:19:32,220 --> 00:19:29,740 the truth might have something to do 436 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:32,230 with his government former position as 437 00:19:39,390 --> 00:19:34,450 well and I don't even want to go there 438 00:19:42,510 --> 00:19:39,400 with him on that but now moving on along 439 00:19:45,270 --> 00:19:42,520 with you and the reason for your doing 440 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:45,280 skeptical and bringing it up to the 441 00:19:51,990 --> 00:19:48,210 reason for us doing shattered reality a 442 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:52,000 big part of my reason is because I think 443 00:19:59,909 --> 00:19:56,010 the media the mainstream media is 444 00:20:02,460 --> 00:19:59,919 deluding us like pointing the finger at 445 00:20:04,650 --> 00:20:02,470 certain things going on trying to pull 446 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:04,660 our attention away from things that are 447 00:20:09,650 --> 00:20:05,250 really 448 00:20:12,380 --> 00:20:09,660 if somebody passes away and somebody 449 00:20:14,540 --> 00:20:12,390 shot it's not important to that person 450 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:14,550 in that person's family and on some 451 00:20:18,470 --> 00:20:16,170 level important to the United States 452 00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:18,480 into the world but when your 453 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:21,600 twenty-four-seven on some situation out 454 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:24,570 there in the media and you you ignore 455 00:20:28,970 --> 00:20:26,250 the fact that there isn't a volcano 456 00:20:30,590 --> 00:20:28,980 erupting in Southeast Asia and people 457 00:20:33,890 --> 00:20:30,600 are jumping in the water or off 458 00:20:37,130 --> 00:20:33,900 Australia and killing themselves and you 459 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:37,140 know on and on they just obscure like 460 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:40,770 really important news stories with this 461 00:20:47,690 --> 00:20:44,610 mono focus and not only that when you or 462 00:20:53,540 --> 00:20:47,700 I get interviewed by you know somebody 463 00:20:56,180 --> 00:20:53,550 on CNN or CBS or whatever they put out a 464 00:20:58,750 --> 00:20:56,190 tape of what you've said and then they 465 00:21:01,970 --> 00:20:58,760 cut it up and they even change the 466 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:01,980 question that was asked and I've had 467 00:21:07,370 --> 00:21:04,410 this done to me I've had my things that 468 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:07,380 I said that were really not foolish at 469 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:11,850 all I've had them turned around by sort 470 00:21:20,330 --> 00:21:16,290 of creative splicing of my interview so 471 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:20,340 this gives me and Kate Valentine the 472 00:21:25,940 --> 00:21:23,010 opportunity to say things and talk about 473 00:21:27,980 --> 00:21:25,950 subjects that we find to be compelling 474 00:21:30,130 --> 00:21:27,990 and I wonder if that's part of your 475 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:30,140 reason and I think you're saying it is 476 00:21:35,380 --> 00:21:33,330 well I jump off on that point on a 477 00:21:38,150 --> 00:21:35,390 couple of different directions I mean 478 00:21:40,220 --> 00:21:38,160 undoubtedly true right first in terms of 479 00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:40,230 what you're saying the I don't know 480 00:21:44,570 --> 00:21:42,000 about you but I think most people 481 00:21:45,620 --> 00:21:44,580 probably I imagine a lot of the people 482 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:45,630 who are listening to this show and 483 00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:47,250 listen to my show in the same situation 484 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:51,510 is I can't even turn on CNN I mean I can 485 00:21:56,150 --> 00:21:53,010 flip through station but it's just like 486 00:21:58,430 --> 00:21:56,160 III just start laughing as soon as I see 487 00:22:01,430 --> 00:21:58,440 it it's like this is the shattered 488 00:22:04,340 --> 00:22:01,440 reality this is like a joke but the good 489 00:22:06,730 --> 00:22:04,350 news is I think just on a pure numbers 490 00:22:09,710 --> 00:22:06,740 basis I think the influence of 491 00:22:12,740 --> 00:22:09,720 mainstream quote-unquote mainstream 492 00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:12,750 media is more and more called into 493 00:22:17,210 --> 00:22:14,910 question by this alternative media it 494 00:22:18,830 --> 00:22:17,220 just is the numbers the growth numbers 495 00:22:21,260 --> 00:22:18,840 are clearly on the 496 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:21,270 side of the alternative media and 497 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:23,970 clearly on the side of this kind of long 498 00:22:28,730 --> 00:22:27,210 tail broadcasting like we're doing 499 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:28,740 people are getting their information 500 00:22:33,380 --> 00:22:31,650 from a lot of different sources and what 501 00:22:35,180 --> 00:22:33,390 could be better than that but the other 502 00:22:37,580 --> 00:22:35,190 thing I'd say and this is kind of more 503 00:22:39,710 --> 00:22:37,590 from a spiritual perspective but I think 504 00:22:42,770 --> 00:22:39,720 it's definitely true for me and I just 505 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:42,780 think it's true and Jen was that we pull 506 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:46,530 the wool over our own eyes you know we 507 00:22:52,580 --> 00:22:49,050 don't want to really deal with the 508 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:52,590 implicit the full implications of what 509 00:22:57,590 --> 00:22:55,410 we find out here in terms of extended 510 00:23:01,220 --> 00:22:57,600 consciousness in terms of you're not a 511 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:01,230 biological robot your brain isn't your 512 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:03,930 body there is something that persists 513 00:23:09,590 --> 00:23:06,330 after death you know that's a lot to 514 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:09,600 take in that's a lot to really deal with 515 00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:14,010 what that means to be connected that you 516 00:23:20,060 --> 00:23:17,130 know Kate you and I are connected 517 00:23:23,210 --> 00:23:20,070 Farrugia you and I are really connected 518 00:23:25,370 --> 00:23:23,220 I mean well we want to i think i want 519 00:23:27,290 --> 00:23:25,380 escape sometimes back into the material 520 00:23:29,180 --> 00:23:27,300 world where i can fight with other 521 00:23:31,460 --> 00:23:29,190 people and win an argument and you know 522 00:23:33,470 --> 00:23:31,470 all that i want to escape back there but 523 00:23:35,900 --> 00:23:33,480 i know that that's not the real world 524 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:35,910 either so i think we delude ourselves as 525 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:38,490 well well you're really good really 526 00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:42,810 really good at the debate area which is 527 00:23:47,750 --> 00:23:44,880 the point which you know you if you get 528 00:23:51,430 --> 00:23:47,760 to speak to some of these debunkers in 529 00:23:54,350 --> 00:23:51,440 the way that you do and that you sort of 530 00:23:56,870 --> 00:23:54,360 stop them in their tracks and I really 531 00:23:59,300 --> 00:23:56,880 do appreciate it and you know if you go 532 00:24:01,880 --> 00:23:59,310 too far to one extreme you've got the 533 00:24:04,970 --> 00:24:01,890 people they're like you know evangelical 534 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:04,980 types and fundamentalists who believe 535 00:24:08,930 --> 00:24:06,930 that you have to believe what they 536 00:24:11,810 --> 00:24:08,940 believe is what they do believe in an 537 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:11,820 afterlife yes they do so their afterlife 538 00:24:16,910 --> 00:24:14,250 is heaven the Muslim afterlife is the 539 00:24:20,030 --> 00:24:16,920 paradise yes with the Virgin's in the 540 00:24:21,890 --> 00:24:20,040 mansion and okay so what the truth of 541 00:24:24,380 --> 00:24:21,900 the matter is reem come true but I don't 542 00:24:26,900 --> 00:24:24,390 know we don't know what it is I know but 543 00:24:28,940 --> 00:24:26,910 but they are true believers they are 544 00:24:30,620 --> 00:24:28,950 true believers but belief is not really 545 00:24:37,070 --> 00:24:30,630 the point here 546 00:24:39,170 --> 00:24:37,080 experientially finding out what's going 547 00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:39,180 on are you supposed to experience until 548 00:24:43,070 --> 00:24:41,370 that moment comes well that's a good 549 00:24:45,140 --> 00:24:43,080 there's a question whatever think about 550 00:24:47,900 --> 00:24:45,150 that Alex I mean let's assume that there 551 00:24:50,270 --> 00:24:47,910 is life after death and are we supposed 552 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:50,280 to know about it and how our does that 553 00:24:57,500 --> 00:24:53,810 sort of skew the whole idea of living I 554 00:24:59,330 --> 00:24:57,510 don't think we know those answers you 555 00:25:02,240 --> 00:24:59,340 know one of the things that I think 556 00:25:04,730 --> 00:25:02,250 skeptic Oh has brought me to it's funny 557 00:25:06,860 --> 00:25:04,740 you know the name people I'll ask me 558 00:25:08,660 --> 00:25:06,870 sometimes you know skeptical what are 559 00:25:11,060 --> 00:25:08,670 you doing you're digging into the 560 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:11,070 skeptics you know and it's like I don't 561 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:12,450 know I really kind of it's one of those 562 00:25:17,270 --> 00:25:14,610 things that I'm sure you all can relate 563 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:17,280 but weird synchronicities but I'm 564 00:25:22,100 --> 00:25:19,650 looking for the name of this show and 565 00:25:25,610 --> 00:25:22,110 I'm kind of thinking you know the 566 00:25:27,650 --> 00:25:25,620 skeptic reclaiming skepticism and I'm on 567 00:25:29,210 --> 00:25:27,660 Wikipedia in wherever else talk about 568 00:25:30,830 --> 00:25:29,220 wicca pick talk about Ted right we 569 00:25:32,750 --> 00:25:30,840 should talk about Wikipedia and can 570 00:25:37,130 --> 00:25:32,760 really get it get our blood boiling here 571 00:25:41,420 --> 00:25:37,140 but so you know skeptic comes from this 572 00:25:45,350 --> 00:25:41,430 ancient Greek word of skeptical and it 573 00:25:48,700 --> 00:25:45,360 was this group of philosophers that were 574 00:25:52,820 --> 00:25:48,710 very keen on not coming to any 575 00:25:55,010 --> 00:25:52,830 conclusions only asking questions and 576 00:25:58,760 --> 00:25:55,020 they almost saw it as a religious 577 00:26:00,230 --> 00:25:58,770 journey to continue to ask ask ask and I 578 00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:00,240 kind of disregarded that I said oh you 579 00:26:04,550 --> 00:26:02,130 know that's cool i have Greek heritage 580 00:26:07,940 --> 00:26:04,560 that skeptical boom and i just grabbed 581 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:07,950 the name and over seven years I've grown 582 00:26:13,310 --> 00:26:10,770 into that in terms of understanding it 583 00:26:16,610 --> 00:26:13,320 really is at least for me about 584 00:26:19,820 --> 00:26:16,620 continuing to ask questions continuing 585 00:26:21,890 --> 00:26:19,830 not to be pinned down or fixed so Kate 586 00:26:24,500 --> 00:26:21,900 that's what I think is that you know 587 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:24,510 that the near-death experience science 588 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:26,490 let's say because it is an important 589 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:30,090 science it brings us to the brink it 590 00:26:36,860 --> 00:26:33,930 says there is more there is vastly more 591 00:26:39,020 --> 00:26:36,870 but it doesn't allow us to really come 592 00:26:40,790 --> 00:26:39,030 to any firm conclusions because these 593 00:26:42,260 --> 00:26:40,800 near-death experiencers right they have 594 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:42,270 experiences all over the board right 595 00:26:46,210 --> 00:26:44,330 some of them are seeing Jesus 596 00:26:48,700 --> 00:26:46,220 are saying nothing some of them are 597 00:26:50,830 --> 00:26:48,710 seeing just a you know a white light you 598 00:26:52,539 --> 00:26:50,840 you can form whatever conclusion will 599 00:26:55,259 --> 00:26:52,549 you want out of that so I think it's 600 00:26:57,639 --> 00:26:55,269 important to stay open to the question 601 00:26:59,740 --> 00:26:57,649 should I give him my father's famous 602 00:27:02,289 --> 00:26:59,750 line I don't know what your father's 603 00:27:04,450 --> 00:27:02,299 fame how it is I was asking him this and 604 00:27:06,759 --> 00:27:04,460 I think its first year college we went 605 00:27:08,350 --> 00:27:06,769 over all this and I was saying to you I 606 00:27:10,269 --> 00:27:08,360 wonder what there is he goes well kid I 607 00:27:14,950 --> 00:27:10,279 can tell you one thing we're all dying 608 00:27:17,799 --> 00:27:14,960 to find out yes indeed there's that um I 609 00:27:19,450 --> 00:27:17,809 I find a show really entering I'm glad 610 00:27:21,279 --> 00:27:19,460 you introduced me to this from sure this 611 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:21,289 this is really cool so you're in a 612 00:27:29,169 --> 00:27:26,090 search for truth yes mmm good luck um I 613 00:27:32,139 --> 00:27:29,179 like this I like but the way that you 614 00:27:35,590 --> 00:27:32,149 take on the proselytizing atheists 615 00:27:38,259 --> 00:27:35,600 because I've come from a place where you 616 00:27:41,259 --> 00:27:38,269 know generally speaking in polite 617 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:41,269 society Xin New York City you generally 618 00:27:45,970 --> 00:27:43,850 don't question people's religious 619 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:45,980 beliefs you know you just let that go 620 00:27:51,580 --> 00:27:49,010 and people are in in New York City that 621 00:27:55,389 --> 00:27:51,590 that I always hung around with they 622 00:27:58,090 --> 00:27:55,399 don't generally push something on you 623 00:28:00,129 --> 00:27:58,100 you know somebody's a Greek Orthodox 624 00:28:02,830 --> 00:28:00,139 somebody's a Jew somebody's elapsed 625 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:02,840 Lutheran like me and you know you let 626 00:28:08,830 --> 00:28:05,570 you let it pass but sometimes you meet 627 00:28:11,139 --> 00:28:08,840 these people who are virulent atheists 628 00:28:14,649 --> 00:28:11,149 they're so strongly atheists that they 629 00:28:16,930 --> 00:28:14,659 cannot stand the fact that you are not 630 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:16,940 an atheist and they grill you and they 631 00:28:24,539 --> 00:28:20,450 put you down and they keep at you almost 632 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:24,549 more so than a proselytizing evangelical 633 00:28:31,330 --> 00:28:29,570 type person and so it I am very happy to 634 00:28:33,820 --> 00:28:31,340 see you skewer some of those folks 635 00:28:37,389 --> 00:28:33,830 though I must tell you I felt a little 636 00:28:39,789 --> 00:28:37,399 sorry for john Loftus simply because he 637 00:28:42,549 --> 00:28:39,799 seemed like you know a nice sort of a 638 00:28:47,019 --> 00:28:42,559 guy that never really thought through 639 00:28:51,190 --> 00:28:47,029 his positions to the final outcome of 640 00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:51,200 what he was thinking the the the denim 641 00:28:57,070 --> 00:28:53,120 ah of what he was thinking in other 642 00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:57,080 words he didn't seem to get it he seemed 643 00:29:00,240 --> 00:28:57,970 like he needed to 644 00:29:03,030 --> 00:29:00,250 believe something having been a very 645 00:29:06,090 --> 00:29:03,040 strong Catholic at one point in his life 646 00:29:08,790 --> 00:29:06,100 he had to turn his back on that because 647 00:29:11,820 --> 00:29:08,800 he became disappointed in that and he 648 00:29:15,810 --> 00:29:11,830 then took up atheism like a religion and 649 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:15,820 I think that his his mental state is 650 00:29:21,090 --> 00:29:18,490 he's a different person mentally then 651 00:29:24,450 --> 00:29:21,100 say you were I he just needs a belief 652 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:24,460 system do you know yes and I think we 653 00:29:29,550 --> 00:29:26,050 could say that about a lot of a lot of 654 00:29:30,690 --> 00:29:29,560 atheists and I you know it's it's that's 655 00:29:32,100 --> 00:29:30,700 going to sound harsh what's going to 656 00:29:34,020 --> 00:29:32,110 sound judgmental but it's just like 657 00:29:35,790 --> 00:29:34,030 you're mentioning hey listen to the 658 00:29:39,300 --> 00:29:35,800 listen to the show go through the logic 659 00:29:43,110 --> 00:29:39,310 oh yeah but the whole logic of atheism 660 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:43,120 is just kind of silly in one sense it's 661 00:29:50,310 --> 00:29:45,970 because atheists are very committed to 662 00:29:52,620 --> 00:29:50,320 this idea that we are meaningless beings 663 00:29:55,890 --> 00:29:52,630 meaningless robots biological robots 664 00:29:59,280 --> 00:29:55,900 living in a meaningless world a 665 00:30:01,800 --> 00:29:59,290 meaningless universe that is their Creed 666 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:01,810 they cannot get away from it it's part 667 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:04,090 and parcel of you know the Four Horsemen 668 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:07,330 of New Atheism and there's Dawkins and 669 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:09,130 there's Dennett I mean that's right out 670 00:30:12,420 --> 00:30:10,810 of their playbook right so Richard 671 00:30:13,770 --> 00:30:12,430 Dawkins you are a biological robot 672 00:30:16,470 --> 00:30:13,780 that's what he said it says in his book 673 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:16,480 The Selfish Gene Daniel Dennett you know 674 00:30:21,180 --> 00:30:18,850 the same thing you are a biological 675 00:30:22,650 --> 00:30:21,190 robot so Lawrence Krauss who I 676 00:30:23,790 --> 00:30:22,660 interviewed on the show famous 677 00:30:25,530 --> 00:30:23,800 physicists you know wrote a book 678 00:30:26,940 --> 00:30:25,540 something out of nothing i think is the 679 00:30:28,770 --> 00:30:26,950 title in what might have got it slightly 680 00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:28,780 wrong there but again meaningless 681 00:30:36,690 --> 00:30:32,110 universe so i think the natural question 682 00:30:40,770 --> 00:30:36,700 to ask those folks is okay so your life 683 00:30:43,380 --> 00:30:40,780 is meaningless what would have no cuz 684 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:43,390 you have no love then the love that you 685 00:30:47,460 --> 00:30:45,250 feel for your parents or for your 686 00:30:50,100 --> 00:30:47,470 children that's meaningless that doesn't 687 00:30:51,780 --> 00:30:50,110 really exist that's an illusion your 688 00:30:55,350 --> 00:30:51,790 life is meaningless everything you're 689 00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:55,360 doing is meaningless why even perpetuate 690 00:31:00,510 --> 00:30:57,850 such an absurdity right i mean we talk 691 00:31:03,570 --> 00:31:00,520 about suicide now right why perpetuate 692 00:31:05,670 --> 00:31:03,580 an absurdity that is all an illusion you 693 00:31:07,650 --> 00:31:05,680 can't even say that it would be for the 694 00:31:09,900 --> 00:31:07,660 procreation of your dreams logically 695 00:31:11,820 --> 00:31:09,910 that i'm sorry the procreation of your 696 00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:11,830 genes logically that doesn't 697 00:31:15,409 --> 00:31:13,120 can make any sense because you would 698 00:31:19,590 --> 00:31:15,419 just be bringing other people into this 699 00:31:24,539 --> 00:31:19,600 illusion into this big game it's clearly 700 00:31:28,500 --> 00:31:24,549 a goofy idea philosophically atheism 701 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:28,510 makes no sense so I've debated these 702 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:30,730 folks over and over again on two fronts 703 00:31:37,740 --> 00:31:33,970 number one is that what I just said is 704 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:37,750 that philosophically your life has no 705 00:31:42,539 --> 00:31:40,570 meaning isn't a very strong position to 706 00:31:44,279 --> 00:31:42,549 take and no one really believes that 707 00:31:47,220 --> 00:31:44,289 otherwise they wouldn't perpetuate it 708 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:47,230 but number two the news is if that's the 709 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:49,690 way it is I can live with it but the 710 00:31:54,899 --> 00:31:52,210 best science suggests you know what the 711 00:31:57,629 --> 00:31:54,909 universe isn't meaningless and we are 712 00:32:00,750 --> 00:31:57,639 not biological robots and we are not 713 00:32:05,159 --> 00:32:00,760 equal to our brain so you know that's 714 00:32:06,690 --> 00:32:05,169 the answer to the Creed is the Creed 715 00:32:11,250 --> 00:32:06,700 falls apart because the science doesn't 716 00:32:13,860 --> 00:32:11,260 back it up well the most the most the 717 00:32:17,310 --> 00:32:13,870 best point that i like is about 718 00:32:20,639 --> 00:32:17,320 consciousness and how consciousness does 719 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:20,649 not live inside the brain the 720 00:32:26,700 --> 00:32:22,690 consciousness is bigger their 721 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:26,710 consciousness is in a non-local a non 722 00:32:34,350 --> 00:32:30,490 time-space reality and I think that I 723 00:32:37,139 --> 00:32:34,360 think Russell Targ says that best says 724 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:37,149 it a lot better than I can and physics 725 00:32:42,629 --> 00:32:39,490 and he's a physicist bears that out 726 00:32:46,259 --> 00:32:42,639 especially quantum physics and string 727 00:32:49,950 --> 00:32:46,269 theory and you know the idea that that 728 00:32:54,210 --> 00:32:49,960 the reality doesn't collapse into a 729 00:32:56,060 --> 00:32:54,220 single thing until you observe it until 730 00:32:59,580 --> 00:32:56,070 you observe it then the waveform 731 00:33:02,570 --> 00:32:59,590 collapses which leaves us to the point 732 00:33:06,570 --> 00:33:02,580 of possibly believing in multiple 733 00:33:09,860 --> 00:33:06,580 universes and multiple realities and I 734 00:33:12,450 --> 00:33:09,870 I've listened to so many of your of your 735 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:12,460 podcasts and I would have to say that 736 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:15,610 probably you and I agree on many many 737 00:33:20,850 --> 00:33:18,730 points so probably I would have to bring 738 00:33:22,799 --> 00:33:20,860 it down to some things that maybe we 739 00:33:25,570 --> 00:33:22,809 don't agree upon so that you know you 740 00:33:28,330 --> 00:33:25,580 get a chance to prepare 741 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:28,340 propound what you do believe regarding 742 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:31,010 this these things and the one thing that 743 00:33:36,370 --> 00:33:34,130 seems to me to be still and you say this 744 00:33:39,550 --> 00:33:36,380 to to a large extent still a great 745 00:33:43,150 --> 00:33:39,560 mystery is the reincarnation thing and I 746 00:33:45,430 --> 00:33:43,160 want to just give you a something that 747 00:33:47,770 --> 00:33:45,440 could be the case it could be the case 748 00:33:50,460 --> 00:33:47,780 as well as reincarnation and I'm really 749 00:33:52,870 --> 00:33:50,470 right there with those guys at at the 750 00:33:57,250 --> 00:33:52,880 University of Virginia in fact we've had 751 00:34:00,040 --> 00:33:57,260 one of the researches on rosston see who 752 00:34:02,770 --> 00:34:00,050 researches things I heard that interview 753 00:34:04,780 --> 00:34:02,780 nuh and enjoyed it well good thanks he's 754 00:34:09,250 --> 00:34:04,790 a great guy really nice gentleman to to 755 00:34:10,630 --> 00:34:09,260 meet him but couldn't reincarnation I'm 756 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:10,640 not saying this is the case I'm just 757 00:34:18,180 --> 00:34:13,010 hypothesizing here couldn't 758 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:18,190 reincarnation be possibly that there are 759 00:34:26,830 --> 00:34:23,810 spirits or souls non non carnate 760 00:34:28,660 --> 00:34:26,840 entities a disincarnate entity some of 761 00:34:31,300 --> 00:34:28,670 which may have been alive at one time 762 00:34:34,510 --> 00:34:31,310 some which may not be couldn't they just 763 00:34:38,820 --> 00:34:34,520 be in in the non in the non physical 764 00:34:41,530 --> 00:34:38,830 universe and couldn't we pass through 765 00:34:44,050 --> 00:34:41,540 one of those and suddenly have the 766 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:44,060 insights that might make us believe that 767 00:34:48,820 --> 00:34:46,850 reincarnation was true I've had some of 768 00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:48,830 these experiences I'm not saying this 769 00:34:55,570 --> 00:34:51,280 from a non experience or point of view 770 00:34:58,300 --> 00:34:55,580 could that be the case sure and to me it 771 00:35:00,160 --> 00:34:58,310 gets I don't think it is but I I don't 772 00:35:02,710 --> 00:35:00,170 know to me it gets back to the point I 773 00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:02,720 was making earlier in that you know I'm 774 00:35:11,590 --> 00:35:07,730 very keen to kind of understand the 775 00:35:13,810 --> 00:35:11,600 system of logic that we use for asking 776 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:13,820 these questions you know and that 777 00:35:19,690 --> 00:35:15,890 relates back to my skeptical point in 778 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:19,700 that to me there's certain areas that we 779 00:35:25,630 --> 00:35:23,090 cannot touch with logic with reason and 780 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:25,640 with our limited capabilities I mean one 781 00:35:29,020 --> 00:35:26,810 of the things you hear from the 782 00:35:31,270 --> 00:35:29,030 near-death experience extended 783 00:35:33,730 --> 00:35:31,280 consciousness folks you'll also hear it 784 00:35:36,820 --> 00:35:33,740 from the psychedelic consciousness folks 785 00:35:38,590 --> 00:35:36,830 and from the alien abduction contact 786 00:35:39,430 --> 00:35:38,600 folks they all say the same thing they 787 00:35:42,250 --> 00:35:39,440 say something about 788 00:35:44,380 --> 00:35:42,260 information download right they say they 789 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:44,390 were in this extended consciousness 790 00:35:49,780 --> 00:35:47,810 state where they knew everything before 791 00:35:53,230 --> 00:35:49,790 they could even ask a question it was 792 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:53,240 answered so and then the important thing 793 00:35:59,020 --> 00:35:56,690 is they returned to this state and that 794 00:36:00,760 --> 00:35:59,030 was no longer the case like everything 795 00:36:03,490 --> 00:36:00,770 that was really big had to get jammed 796 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:03,500 down into this little meat sack that we 797 00:36:09,190 --> 00:36:06,050 walk around with and it doesn't quite 798 00:36:12,940 --> 00:36:09,200 fit so you know to answer your question 799 00:36:15,550 --> 00:36:12,950 I can't say that that isn't possible and 800 00:36:17,220 --> 00:36:15,560 I can't say that you know Jim Tucker at 801 00:36:19,630 --> 00:36:17,230 the university of virginia who has 802 00:36:21,220 --> 00:36:19,640 concluded differently because he sees 803 00:36:23,109 --> 00:36:21,230 the birth marks and he sees the stories 804 00:36:26,589 --> 00:36:23,119 and all that I can't say that he's true 805 00:36:28,839 --> 00:36:26,599 what I can say for myself is that that 806 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:28,849 launching off point of fully coming to 807 00:36:33,130 --> 00:36:31,130 grips that we are this limitless 808 00:36:36,190 --> 00:36:33,140 extended consciousness and this 809 00:36:39,339 --> 00:36:36,200 consciousness doesn't end at our death 810 00:36:43,210 --> 00:36:39,349 boy I mean that's a full-time job just 811 00:36:45,190 --> 00:36:43,220 really internalizing that and figuring 812 00:36:46,780 --> 00:36:45,200 out what that means in terms of how I 813 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:46,790 should live my life how I should be a 814 00:36:52,809 --> 00:36:48,770 better father a better husband a better 815 00:36:55,390 --> 00:36:52,819 friend you know just absolutely I I 816 00:36:58,240 --> 00:36:55,400 fully concur and I'm not saying 817 00:37:00,970 --> 00:36:58,250 reincarnation is not the case i am just 818 00:37:03,550 --> 00:37:00,980 offering a different possible 819 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:03,560 perspective because i've looked at it 820 00:37:08,230 --> 00:37:05,930 from different points of logic and as 821 00:37:10,180 --> 00:37:08,240 you have pointed out on skeptical some 822 00:37:12,550 --> 00:37:10,190 of your guests have come up with 823 00:37:15,730 --> 00:37:12,560 different viewpoints and they can't all 824 00:37:17,260 --> 00:37:15,740 be true right you could only reincarnate 825 00:37:21,190 --> 00:37:17,270 three times the soonest you can 826 00:37:23,010 --> 00:37:21,200 reincarnate is 18 Molly's rules that 827 00:37:26,170 --> 00:37:23,020 when you step back they start looking 828 00:37:27,460 --> 00:37:26,180 very religious very Orthodox again which 829 00:37:29,740 --> 00:37:27,470 is I think something else you know 830 00:37:32,470 --> 00:37:29,750 you're you're mentioning that the kind 831 00:37:34,150 --> 00:37:32,480 of the New York culture of kind of hey 832 00:37:36,370 --> 00:37:34,160 you know don't talk about religion you 833 00:37:38,859 --> 00:37:36,380 don't go there it's like no I think 834 00:37:40,750 --> 00:37:38,869 those are there at least as Kate was 835 00:37:43,300 --> 00:37:40,760 alluding to at least they're trying to 836 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:43,310 tackle some of the bigger issues of you 837 00:37:46,780 --> 00:37:44,930 know what happens after we die and stuff 838 00:37:48,370 --> 00:37:46,790 like that hell why are we all talking 839 00:37:50,470 --> 00:37:48,380 about religion and as soon as we sit 840 00:37:51,819 --> 00:37:50,480 down oh you're you're a Catholic what 841 00:37:52,770 --> 00:37:51,829 why do you really believe that I do 842 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:52,780 believe the 843 00:37:56,460 --> 00:37:54,490 the Pope is infallible you know all the 844 00:37:58,680 --> 00:37:56,470 right why wouldn't that have to be 845 00:38:01,890 --> 00:37:58,690 unpleasant about it but you might get us 846 00:38:05,820 --> 00:38:01,900 eat up well I'll take I'll take my 847 00:38:07,890 --> 00:38:05,830 chances you know I think one of the 848 00:38:10,950 --> 00:38:07,900 points you miss is that biological 849 00:38:14,220 --> 00:38:10,960 robots can have fun too and maybe the 850 00:38:16,410 --> 00:38:14,230 whole point of our existence is if we 851 00:38:18,690 --> 00:38:16,420 are spiritual beings that have eternal 852 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:18,700 life maybe once in a while you want to 853 00:38:23,100 --> 00:38:20,290 get down here and have a little fun and 854 00:38:24,570 --> 00:38:23,110 experience a materialistic world and I 855 00:38:27,210 --> 00:38:24,580 think that could very well be the point 856 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:27,220 of our existence and I think it's a 857 00:38:30,750 --> 00:38:28,690 really good idea to go out there have 858 00:38:32,850 --> 00:38:30,760 fun have a few drinks with a few good 859 00:38:36,110 --> 00:38:32,860 friends drive a great sports car and 860 00:38:39,450 --> 00:38:36,120 make some money nothing wrong with that 861 00:38:41,730 --> 00:38:39,460 maybe yeah i think you know when we 862 00:38:43,470 --> 00:38:41,740 really don't have to disagree with you 863 00:38:46,610 --> 00:38:43,480 there but i think when we take a big 864 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:46,620 step back and look at our culture and 865 00:38:52,260 --> 00:38:50,170 our position in the world I think we've 866 00:38:54,540 --> 00:38:52,270 done a pretty good job of that you know 867 00:38:56,580 --> 00:38:54,550 here in the West and here in the United 868 00:38:58,320 --> 00:38:56,590 States and considering that you know 869 00:39:00,540 --> 00:38:58,330 half of the world's population lives on 870 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:00,550 less than two dollars a day I mean I 871 00:39:05,430 --> 00:39:02,290 think we should enjoy I live an 872 00:39:07,110 --> 00:39:05,440 incredibly fortunate an awesome 873 00:39:08,850 --> 00:39:07,120 lifestyle and have a beautiful also 874 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:08,860 overlooking the oceans I don't want to 875 00:39:13,260 --> 00:39:11,410 boil I don't want to play I want to kind 876 00:39:15,150 --> 00:39:13,270 of complain and kind of play up that 877 00:39:18,570 --> 00:39:15,160 other stuff not I do think that 878 00:39:23,340 --> 00:39:18,580 compassion that that comes with that 879 00:39:26,850 --> 00:39:23,350 realization I think makes his kind of 880 00:39:28,290 --> 00:39:26,860 constantly look in other directions you 881 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:28,300 know I was just thinking the other day I 882 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:30,610 was out with my dogs in the backyard and 883 00:39:36,990 --> 00:39:33,850 really a very obvious ordinary life and 884 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:37,000 I thought my god even now just with this 885 00:39:42,450 --> 00:39:39,370 I am living they had just had some show 886 00:39:44,550 --> 00:39:42,460 on TV about the old Elizabethan arrow 887 00:39:46,530 --> 00:39:44,560 the Georgian era in England and I 888 00:39:48,780 --> 00:39:46,540 thought wow those people lived a lot 889 00:39:50,940 --> 00:39:48,790 worse than I did and I mean I'm listen I 890 00:39:53,070 --> 00:39:50,950 mean I I'm with you I think it's really 891 00:39:55,170 --> 00:39:53,080 interesting to look into this stuff 892 00:39:57,180 --> 00:39:55,180 there's some fascinating viewpoints but 893 00:39:59,820 --> 00:39:57,190 I'll be honest with you I'm not leaving 894 00:40:01,350 --> 00:39:59,830 for Tibet anytime soon nor I know I 895 00:40:04,290 --> 00:40:01,360 don't think any I don't think any of us 896 00:40:06,060 --> 00:40:04,300 are leaving foot to bed though I don't 897 00:40:06,599 --> 00:40:06,070 think Tibet is what it once was i think 898 00:40:11,849 --> 00:40:06,609 it's 899 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:11,859 now and I'm feeling for what you got I 900 00:40:16,950 --> 00:40:14,650 bite but again it's policy I think the 901 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:16,960 real evil in this world is politics in 902 00:40:22,229 --> 00:40:19,930 government I don't think its people and 903 00:40:24,779 --> 00:40:22,239 I don't know I don't know about you 904 00:40:26,249 --> 00:40:24,789 fruition you Alex but i would say ninety 905 00:40:29,579 --> 00:40:26,259 nine percent of the people i meet her 906 00:40:31,529 --> 00:40:29,589 really okay I mean not evil not bad not 907 00:40:35,190 --> 00:40:31,539 particularly good not particularly bad 908 00:40:37,470 --> 00:40:35,200 just nice I think that's probably true I 909 00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:37,480 I think that a lot of people I meet are 910 00:40:41,729 --> 00:40:39,599 in thinking about the big questions 911 00:40:43,769 --> 00:40:41,739 unfortunately and maybe they're not 912 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:43,779 meant to I don't really know that's a 913 00:40:48,390 --> 00:40:46,450 good point but getting back to skeptical 914 00:40:50,789 --> 00:40:48,400 no no no you've got a good point okay 915 00:40:58,289 --> 00:40:50,799 you got a very good point and I'm all of 916 00:41:01,739 --> 00:40:58,299 us you know Dave here and go and K and I 917 00:41:04,650 --> 00:41:01,749 and and you there we all live a pretty 918 00:41:07,950 --> 00:41:04,660 good life that we have the time and the 919 00:41:10,109 --> 00:41:07,960 energy to sit around like we are talking 920 00:41:15,210 --> 00:41:10,119 about these things but just getting back 921 00:41:17,279 --> 00:41:15,220 to your show the the one thing that you 922 00:41:19,710 --> 00:41:17,289 know I would like to see more of and 923 00:41:22,319 --> 00:41:19,720 this is you know it's not you doing a 924 00:41:24,870 --> 00:41:22,329 fabulous job but i think i would love to 925 00:41:26,940 --> 00:41:24,880 see more about animals because you know 926 00:41:29,789 --> 00:41:26,950 i really believe that there's a lot more 927 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:29,799 consciousness out there that that so 928 00:41:35,069 --> 00:41:32,410 much is is dedicated to human 929 00:41:38,220 --> 00:41:35,079 spirituality whether it be in religion 930 00:41:41,430 --> 00:41:38,230 or whether it be in spiritual circles 931 00:41:44,099 --> 00:41:41,440 and not enough energy is devoted to the 932 00:41:48,059 --> 00:41:44,109 animals the plants and even what we 933 00:41:50,549 --> 00:41:48,069 consider to be non living things but 934 00:41:53,489 --> 00:41:50,559 when we talk about living we're talking 935 00:41:56,870 --> 00:41:53,499 about respiration the fact that plants 936 00:41:59,400 --> 00:41:56,880 respirate and we breathe and if 937 00:42:02,190 --> 00:41:59,410 something doesn't respirate or have a 938 00:42:04,950 --> 00:42:02,200 heartbeat we think it's not alive but i 939 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:04,960 disagree with that from the point of 940 00:42:09,749 --> 00:42:07,690 view that i have the feeling the I feel 941 00:42:12,299 --> 00:42:09,759 the energy in all things even in rocks 942 00:42:14,729 --> 00:42:12,309 in the earth in the Sun being alive I 943 00:42:17,700 --> 00:42:14,739 mean I really feel strongly about that I 944 00:42:20,100 --> 00:42:17,710 can't prove it but I do think that we 945 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:20,110 should give more 946 00:42:25,380 --> 00:42:23,410 more attention at least to the plants 947 00:42:28,380 --> 00:42:25,390 and animals around us I think the rocks 948 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:28,390 can take care of themselves frankly but 949 00:42:34,530 --> 00:42:32,890 I was so moved today by reading that the 950 00:42:37,190 --> 00:42:34,540 Pope and I'm not a Catholic and I'm not 951 00:42:40,980 --> 00:42:37,200 going to become a Catholic but he 952 00:42:43,380 --> 00:42:40,990 denounced the cruelty to animals and and 953 00:42:45,540 --> 00:42:43,390 he felt that good a good Christian or a 954 00:42:48,930 --> 00:42:45,550 good person with a good heart Christian 955 00:42:51,060 --> 00:42:48,940 Jewish atheist or otherwise I said most 956 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:51,070 assured he should be then I could to 957 00:42:59,760 --> 00:42:55,810 animals and i would love to this i would 958 00:43:02,880 --> 00:42:59,770 love to see more about animal 959 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:02,890 communication and about animal and and 960 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:05,410 and planned consciousness like the cliff 961 00:43:11,430 --> 00:43:09,370 baxter stuff from from the what is the 962 00:43:14,190 --> 00:43:11,440 70s d are you familiar with his research 963 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:14,200 yeah you know first I just had just on 964 00:43:19,620 --> 00:43:18,130 the last episode 2 79 is Simon green on 965 00:43:23,250 --> 00:43:19,630 so maybe that's referring to yes really 966 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:23,260 a young guy yes wonderful and talk about 967 00:43:28,770 --> 00:43:26,530 the the plants communication I was blown 968 00:43:32,610 --> 00:43:28,780 away I mean he is a guy for your 969 00:43:35,750 --> 00:43:32,620 listeners who is a healer works with 970 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:35,760 ayahuasca has had numerous numerous 971 00:43:43,350 --> 00:43:39,330 experiences in the Peruvian in Colombian 972 00:43:46,740 --> 00:43:43,360 Amazonian jungle with what do they 973 00:43:50,370 --> 00:43:46,750 called the kuro court arrows or fear and 974 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:50,380 arrows Calculon theros Coronado's I love 975 00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:52,690 the way you said that awesome so and 976 00:43:57,720 --> 00:43:55,570 yeah you know the one the one thing I 977 00:44:01,140 --> 00:43:57,730 took away just come in as a minor minor 978 00:44:03,330 --> 00:44:01,150 thing and that is you know it's like hey 979 00:44:05,850 --> 00:44:03,340 how did these guys find out how to do 980 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:05,860 all this stuff really the plant stole 981 00:44:10,550 --> 00:44:07,570 them really that's what they all say 982 00:44:13,140 --> 00:44:10,560 right they say hey we entered this 983 00:44:17,070 --> 00:44:13,150 extended consciousness state and the 984 00:44:19,380 --> 00:44:17,080 plants told us you can use me for this 985 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:19,390 you can take me in the spring when my 986 00:44:24,270 --> 00:44:22,090 flower first blooms and mix me with this 987 00:44:26,190 --> 00:44:24,280 and this will happen and you need to 988 00:44:28,980 --> 00:44:26,200 back that up when we went down as 989 00:44:31,470 --> 00:44:28,990 Westerners to kind of pharmaceutically 990 00:44:34,060 --> 00:44:31,480 rape pillage and plunder everything we 991 00:44:35,830 --> 00:44:34,070 could we went to these guys 992 00:44:37,740 --> 00:44:35,840 and said well you know how does this 993 00:44:39,970 --> 00:44:37,750 stuff work and they had this 994 00:44:41,290 --> 00:44:39,980 encyclopedic knowledge of walking 995 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:41,300 through the forest and just kind of 996 00:44:44,950 --> 00:44:42,890 saying these things and these guys were 997 00:44:46,570 --> 00:44:44,960 blown away they're like how would you 998 00:44:49,330 --> 00:44:46,580 know that you know how would you know 999 00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:49,340 you mix this with this at this way and 1000 00:44:53,530 --> 00:44:51,170 then it works without a chemical lab or 1001 00:44:55,750 --> 00:44:53,540 without any of that so we maybe have to 1002 00:44:57,340 --> 00:44:55,760 take seriously that they really are 1003 00:45:01,240 --> 00:44:57,350 communicating with the plants and 1004 00:45:04,150 --> 00:45:01,250 Pachamama too yeah wow so Alexander 1005 00:45:08,890 --> 00:45:04,160 Fleming could have actually listened to 1006 00:45:10,990 --> 00:45:08,900 what the voles were saying oh maybe I 1007 00:45:14,350 --> 00:45:11,000 mean what am i I don't know but I 1008 00:45:19,090 --> 00:45:14,360 interestingly enough in school one of 1009 00:45:22,990 --> 00:45:19,100 the professors was German from the early 1010 00:45:25,660 --> 00:45:23,000 1900's and he had an encyclopedic 1011 00:45:28,690 --> 00:45:25,670 knowledge of the plants of the Alps that 1012 00:45:32,290 --> 00:45:28,700 he had derived from folklore from the 1013 00:45:33,550 --> 00:45:32,300 people i think people actually just you 1014 00:45:36,550 --> 00:45:33,560 know they have a headache to chew on 1015 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:36,560 willow bark and it goes away or they 1016 00:45:41,260 --> 00:45:38,690 chew on a dandelion and it doesn't and i 1017 00:45:44,170 --> 00:45:41,270 think over time and over millennia and 1018 00:45:46,270 --> 00:45:44,180 you know what i think people baby Kate 1019 00:45:47,950 --> 00:45:46,280 but again that's not what they're saying 1020 00:45:49,420 --> 00:45:47,960 right so so that they're saying 1021 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:49,430 something completely different from that 1022 00:45:52,630 --> 00:45:50,930 that's not to say what you're saying is 1023 00:45:54,460 --> 00:45:52,640 true but we have to have some way to 1024 00:45:56,470 --> 00:45:54,470 kind of tease that out and I kind of go 1025 00:45:57,970 --> 00:45:56,480 with thee I kind of go with the 1026 00:46:00,310 --> 00:45:57,980 testimony of the people involved 1027 00:46:02,710 --> 00:46:00,320 especially when we can go cross culture 1028 00:46:05,410 --> 00:46:02,720 across time we can take people in the 1029 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:05,420 Peruvian forest and we go take people 1030 00:46:09,850 --> 00:46:07,490 the thousand miles away that they never 1031 00:46:11,590 --> 00:46:09,860 met and they say the same thing then 1032 00:46:13,150 --> 00:46:11,600 these are usually the markers that we 1033 00:46:15,460 --> 00:46:13,160 say that that's what we should follow 1034 00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:15,470 well the other thing that sort of irks 1035 00:46:19,570 --> 00:46:17,330 me is when people talk about the 1036 00:46:21,130 --> 00:46:19,580 so-called natives of wherever area 1037 00:46:23,170 --> 00:46:21,140 they're talking about is they assume 1038 00:46:25,810 --> 00:46:23,180 that they're not intelligent or at least 1039 00:46:28,060 --> 00:46:25,820 that's an underlying assumption like ok 1040 00:46:29,890 --> 00:46:28,070 they don't have certain information 1041 00:46:31,630 --> 00:46:29,900 available to them but that doesn't mean 1042 00:46:33,100 --> 00:46:31,640 they're not intelligent person and it 1043 00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:33,110 doesn't mean that they're not curious 1044 00:46:37,720 --> 00:46:35,330 and investigative and that they don't 1045 00:46:40,900 --> 00:46:37,730 investigate these things however all 1046 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:40,910 that being said I do agree with you you 1047 00:46:44,980 --> 00:46:43,010 know there was all Craig what was that 1048 00:46:47,500 --> 00:46:44,990 ancient botany where they used to take 1049 00:46:47,690 --> 00:46:47,510 the shape of the plant that was similar 1050 00:46:50,180 --> 00:46:47,700 to 1051 00:46:52,609 --> 00:46:50,190 organ in the body and so they'd say oh 1052 00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:52,619 this looks like a heart such as 1053 00:46:57,290 --> 00:46:54,930 digitalis and maybe it will help the 1054 00:47:01,310 --> 00:46:57,300 heart and hence foxglove got its name 1055 00:47:02,750 --> 00:47:01,320 but you know I also i have to agree with 1056 00:47:05,690 --> 00:47:02,760 you i think there is definitely a 1057 00:47:07,490 --> 00:47:05,700 communication between species and i 1058 00:47:10,190 --> 00:47:07,500 think we as humans don't always listen 1059 00:47:12,349 --> 00:47:10,200 to it we just disregard it now I don't 1060 00:47:14,660 --> 00:47:12,359 totally disagree with you I just think 1061 00:47:17,210 --> 00:47:14,670 that there's more to it than just simple 1062 00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:17,220 plant communication and me over here on 1063 00:47:20,599 --> 00:47:19,170 the other side of the table I'm just 1064 00:47:23,930 --> 00:47:20,609 wishing I could get my hands on some 1065 00:47:26,870 --> 00:47:23,940 Iowa and try it out I'm only half 1066 00:47:28,490 --> 00:47:26,880 kidding no she's not it's legal it's 1067 00:47:30,620 --> 00:47:28,500 legal here I just have to find the right 1068 00:47:33,710 --> 00:47:30,630 church and well yeah you go to that that 1069 00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:33,720 churchyard California at a lot to wat 1070 00:47:40,430 --> 00:47:37,170 fellow that you had a while ago but I 1071 00:47:44,210 --> 00:47:40,440 found him very very interesting I found 1072 00:47:46,690 --> 00:47:44,220 him a little scary though too and but he 1073 00:47:48,740 --> 00:47:46,700 was extremely interesting and with 1074 00:47:50,359 --> 00:47:48,750 different also take a different 1075 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:50,369 perspective on it at least for me 1076 00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:54,690 personally and that's that you know what 1077 00:48:01,520 --> 00:47:58,050 do I what do I need to discover from 1078 00:48:04,609 --> 00:48:01,530 that psychedelic experience I need to 1079 00:48:06,380 --> 00:48:04,619 discover that we're all connected like 1080 00:48:10,730 --> 00:48:06,390 we're saying well I I know that already 1081 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:10,740 I need to discover that love is where I 1082 00:48:14,839 --> 00:48:13,050 need to focus my energy because I'm in 1083 00:48:17,780 --> 00:48:14,849 my head and I'm not in my heart enough I 1084 00:48:21,170 --> 00:48:17,790 know that already what I get hung up on 1085 00:48:24,140 --> 00:48:21,180 is the day-to-day practice of making 1086 00:48:26,450 --> 00:48:24,150 that happen so when I go hit the yoga 1087 00:48:29,809 --> 00:48:26,460 mat which I've done for you know over 20 1088 00:48:31,430 --> 00:48:29,819 years gray and I face the always this 1089 00:48:33,349 --> 00:48:31,440 racing mind that tells me oh you can 1090 00:48:34,490 --> 00:48:33,359 leave early or come on out of here or 1091 00:48:37,670 --> 00:48:34,500 what are you having for lunch and all 1092 00:48:39,859 --> 00:48:37,680 that hey man that's that's it right 1093 00:48:44,030 --> 00:48:39,869 there that's what's happening that's the 1094 00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:44,040 ayahuasca experience of being why can I 1095 00:48:47,900 --> 00:48:46,290 not be in the moment why can't I not 1096 00:48:51,050 --> 00:48:47,910 apply myself and then I just have to 1097 00:48:54,410 --> 00:48:51,060 laugh at at my condition so you know 1098 00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:54,420 it's like what am I spiritual I think 1099 00:48:59,660 --> 00:48:57,450 mentors and guides is a guy named neem 1100 00:49:00,920 --> 00:48:59,670 Karoli Baba you passed away a number 1101 00:49:04,069 --> 00:49:00,930 years ago we all know 1102 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:04,079 das right yes here now so rom das when 1103 00:49:07,730 --> 00:49:05,490 he went to india he went to see neem 1104 00:49:09,710 --> 00:49:07,740 karoli baba and he tells the famous 1105 00:49:12,829 --> 00:49:09,720 story about you know these guys were all 1106 00:49:17,690 --> 00:49:12,839 tripping they're like crazy right i mean 1107 00:49:19,390 --> 00:49:17,700 rom das was part with timothy leary I 1108 00:49:23,180 --> 00:49:19,400 mean these guys who started the whole 1109 00:49:24,770 --> 00:49:23,190 acid thing at Harvard back in the 60s so 1110 00:49:26,380 --> 00:49:24,780 they have a ton of acid and they bring 1111 00:49:31,549 --> 00:49:26,390 it over there and they give it to this 1112 00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:31,559 Indian st. maharaja and he says waves 1113 00:49:36,079 --> 00:49:33,930 Marvin says gimme gimme the acid and 1114 00:49:39,020 --> 00:49:36,089 he's takes one two three four five six 1115 00:49:40,730 --> 00:49:39,030 any places him on his tongue so he makes 1116 00:49:42,859 --> 00:49:40,740 sure that these guys see that it's not 1117 00:49:45,859 --> 00:49:42,869 some sleight of hand thing he's is there 1118 00:49:47,599 --> 00:49:45,869 okay i've taken it and he says nothing 1119 00:49:49,910 --> 00:49:47,609 happens they're amazed i mean nothing 1120 00:49:51,859 --> 00:49:49,920 happens and he tells him he says look he 1121 00:49:53,690 --> 00:49:51,869 says this is a this is a good medicine 1122 00:49:56,599 --> 00:49:53,700 this is a God medicine it lets you see 1123 00:49:59,480 --> 00:49:56,609 God he said but if you it takes a very 1124 00:50:01,640 --> 00:49:59,490 strong mind to have it not affect you or 1125 00:50:04,130 --> 00:50:01,650 to have it affect you he said but it's 1126 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:04,140 an okay medicine he said but the goal is 1127 00:50:10,339 --> 00:50:07,290 to see God all the time without the 1128 00:50:12,829 --> 00:50:10,349 medicine right so and I think he's using 1129 00:50:16,309 --> 00:50:12,839 medicine they're kind of freely but I 1130 00:50:20,030 --> 00:50:16,319 think the point is the same the problem 1131 00:50:23,210 --> 00:50:20,040 to me seems to be not how do we see God 1132 00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:23,220 because we all have moments brief as 1133 00:50:27,589 --> 00:50:25,410 they may be when we you know try and 1134 00:50:29,930 --> 00:50:27,599 when i'm using got very loosely here 1135 00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:29,940 folks I don't know what God means and I 1136 00:50:33,530 --> 00:50:31,170 certainly don't think it means anything 1137 00:50:35,569 --> 00:50:33,540 Christian or Jewish your religious 1138 00:50:38,630 --> 00:50:35,579 religious in any way that I think about 1139 00:50:42,380 --> 00:50:38,640 our Buddhist but I think our challenge 1140 00:50:45,140 --> 00:50:42,390 is to maintain that connection as much 1141 00:50:48,319 --> 00:50:45,150 as we can and in that sense I'm not sure 1142 00:50:52,609 --> 00:50:48,329 what psychedelics how they can really 1143 00:50:55,970 --> 00:50:52,619 help us do that long-term having not 1144 00:51:01,960 --> 00:50:55,980 imbibed in psychedelics but having been 1145 00:51:06,140 --> 00:51:01,970 a person who has had experience or type 1146 00:51:09,220 --> 00:51:06,150 experiences that's a double their having 1147 00:51:14,450 --> 00:51:09,230 had a lot of experiences that were non 1148 00:51:14,810 --> 00:51:14,460 non usual unusual paranormal I do have 1149 00:51:17,690 --> 00:51:14,820 the 1150 00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:17,700 desire to try it not to make it my life 1151 00:51:23,180 --> 00:51:20,370 but I do have the desire to try it right 1152 00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:23,190 now I have a client who is setting off 1153 00:51:30,500 --> 00:51:27,690 to go down to Colombia to participate at 1154 00:51:33,170 --> 00:51:30,510 one of these sort of like ranches 1155 00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:33,180 outside of the city where there is 1156 00:51:38,900 --> 00:51:35,330 generally a shaman of some sort and 1157 00:51:41,710 --> 00:51:38,910 participate in an ayahuasca ritual and 1158 00:51:45,110 --> 00:51:41,720 the reason why she's doing it is because 1159 00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:45,120 almost no substance it all affects her I 1160 00:51:52,010 --> 00:51:48,410 mean she cannot be affected by normal 1161 00:51:54,620 --> 00:51:52,020 alcohol and drugs at all she just it 1162 00:51:57,410 --> 00:51:54,630 doesn't affect her and I thought she was 1163 00:52:00,020 --> 00:51:57,420 lying and then she proved it to me I'm 1164 00:52:03,290 --> 00:52:00,030 because it's a privileged communication 1165 00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:03,300 I'm not going to discuss the details but 1166 00:52:11,050 --> 00:52:05,090 suffice it to say that I was 1167 00:52:14,420 --> 00:52:11,060 sufficiently convinced that all these 1168 00:52:17,630 --> 00:52:14,430 medicinal substances did not have an 1169 00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:17,640 effect on her so um that's I'm just 1170 00:52:21,410 --> 00:52:19,650 exited from that point of view well i 1171 00:52:24,170 --> 00:52:21,420 had a friend in high school though that 1172 00:52:26,300 --> 00:52:24,180 you know at that time this is way before 1173 00:52:29,300 --> 00:52:26,310 drugs and all this good stuff we used to 1174 00:52:31,490 --> 00:52:29,310 sort of fool around with beer so is he 1175 00:52:33,230 --> 00:52:31,500 innocent days but she could go through 1176 00:52:36,410 --> 00:52:33,240 two or three six packs and be totally 1177 00:52:38,300 --> 00:52:36,420 silver totally at no alcohol absolutely 1178 00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:38,310 no effect is very interesting and she 1179 00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:40,770 was not a spiritual person no neither is 1180 00:52:46,490 --> 00:52:43,170 this woman that's going down to what to 1181 00:52:50,330 --> 00:52:46,500 equity zombie actions god help her a 1182 00:52:54,140 --> 00:52:50,340 lawyer today so so Alex it's been great 1183 00:52:56,750 --> 00:52:54,150 having you on here on on our program 1184 00:53:00,230 --> 00:52:56,760 here on shattered reality and for our 1185 00:53:02,780 --> 00:53:00,240 listeners I cannot more highly recommend 1186 00:53:05,330 --> 00:53:02,790 skeptical than anything it's a wonderful 1187 00:53:07,340 --> 00:53:05,340 wonderful podcast and if you like 1188 00:53:10,220 --> 00:53:07,350 shattered reality you'll probably love 1189 00:53:12,380 --> 00:53:10,230 skeptical and we're looking for more 1190 00:53:14,780 --> 00:53:12,390 listeners to but that I we have to give 1191 00:53:16,550 --> 00:53:14,790 all kudos to you on this you really are 1192 00:53:19,010 --> 00:53:16,560 really a veteran you've done the heavy 1193 00:53:20,780 --> 00:53:19,020 lifting and we love you and it's great 1194 00:53:23,060 --> 00:53:20,790 to have somebody out there asking the 1195 00:53:25,610 --> 00:53:23,070 important questions and I might be a 1196 00:53:27,010 --> 00:53:25,620 little bit of a skeptic myself but the 1197 00:53:29,770 --> 00:53:27,020 questions have to be 1198 00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:29,780 and you do it and congratulations you're 1199 00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:32,690 a great guy and we're on a lot of the 1200 00:53:38,710 --> 00:53:36,170 same pages and wonderful thank you oh 1201 00:53:40,180 --> 00:53:38,720 thank you it's been awesome being on the 1202 00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:40,190 air with you and I wish you good luck 1203 00:53:43,150 --> 00:53:41,570 with your show I've listened to a couple 1204 00:53:45,250 --> 00:53:43,160 episodes and they're great you have a 1205 00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:45,260 great chemistry between you so I'll keep 1206 00:53:50,470 --> 00:53:47,570 listening well thank you as well we 1207 00:53:54,370 --> 00:53:50,480 definitely have a great day okay take 1208 00:53:57,550 --> 00:53:54,380 care shattered reality is our podcast 1209 00:54:01,330 --> 00:53:57,560 this was our 14th episode with the 1210 00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:01,340 wonderful Alex Karras of skeptical 1211 00:54:07,180 --> 00:54:04,490 podcast and he is just a you know of 1212 00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:07,190 real pioneer in the podcast area he's 1213 00:54:13,690 --> 00:54:10,850 been on since 2007 we just started about 1214 00:54:17,020 --> 00:54:13,700 six or seven months ago so we're in awe 1215 00:54:20,890 --> 00:54:17,030 of all that he has accomplished by the 1216 00:54:24,100 --> 00:54:20,900 way please like shattered reality 1217 00:54:28,020 --> 00:54:24,110 podcast on facebook the like page the 1218 00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:28,030 fan page please like us on our two 1219 00:54:35,860 --> 00:54:32,450 websites shattered reality podcast calm 1220 00:54:38,020 --> 00:54:35,870 and shattered reality podcast dot 1221 00:54:41,290 --> 00:54:38,030 wordpress com there's sort of mirror 1222 00:54:45,550 --> 00:54:41,300 images like them both and we are on 1223 00:54:50,010 --> 00:54:45,560 iTunes if you have had like us an iTunes 1224 00:54:54,310 --> 00:54:50,020 if you have had a an interesting UFO or 1225 00:54:56,830 --> 00:54:54,320 other paranormal experience and you are 1226 00:54:58,870 --> 00:54:56,840 a listener to shattered reality and you 1227 00:55:01,900 --> 00:54:58,880 would like to be on please get in 1228 00:55:05,550 --> 00:55:01,910 contact with us we have one person 1229 00:55:09,490 --> 00:55:05,560 standing by in England who had an very 1230 00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:09,500 wonderful and interesting UFO experience 1231 00:55:14,620 --> 00:55:12,650 that was investigated at the time and he 1232 00:55:16,570 --> 00:55:14,630 has been listening to shattered reality 1233 00:55:19,540 --> 00:55:16,580 and wants to come on and I'm hoping to 1234 00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:19,550 put together a you know one show with 1235 00:55:24,790 --> 00:55:22,970 maybe three people taking 20 minutes or 1236 00:55:27,780 --> 00:55:24,800 two people taking a half an hour each 1237 00:55:30,550 --> 00:55:27,790 and we'd like to know what your 1238 00:55:32,500 --> 00:55:30,560 experiences are we'd also like guests 1239 00:55:35,260 --> 00:55:32,510 suggestions what do you say k I would 1240 00:55:38,260 --> 00:55:35,270 say so and also just as Alex said we are 1241 00:55:39,430 --> 00:55:38,270 all connected and so everybody that has 1242 00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:39,440 an experienced by 1243 00:55:43,870 --> 00:55:42,170 sharing there's you broaden all of our 1244 00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:43,880 experiences and it's really necessary 1245 00:55:49,780 --> 00:55:47,930 for us to have this and have you who are 1246 00:55:53,170 --> 00:55:49,790 listening to share all your thoughts 1247 00:55:56,340 --> 00:55:53,180 with us because really like Alex we are 1248 00:55:58,930 --> 00:55:56,350 all still searching for the truth as 1249 00:56:02,230 --> 00:55:58,940 much the hell was his name again well 1250 00:56:05,170 --> 00:56:02,240 not molto if I worked with him Mulder as 1251 00:56:08,020 --> 00:56:05,180 Holder said yeah the truth is indeed out 1252 00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:08,030 there we'd love to find out I still 1253 00:56:11,710 --> 00:56:09,770 think old George had the right thing 1254 00:56:13,570 --> 00:56:11,720 we're all going to find out dying to 1255 00:56:15,460 --> 00:56:13,580 find out but I don't know but yeah we'd 1256 00:56:17,230 --> 00:56:15,470 love to hear what you have to say I mean 1257 00:56:19,900 --> 00:56:17,240 we can sit here and chatter on for a 1258 00:56:23,890 --> 00:56:19,910 long time but we'd want to know what you